well stated keith.....and your point about deer

Could be stated about bass in many situations. I will be the first to say, and have been in the past, that larger fsih are the MOST important to any system. But the truth is that the larger bass "have already passed on their good genes and are more prone to disease and injury than their younger counterparts. "

So either way its a balancing act, kill a big fish because it has done it's job and passed on genes that are beneficial to a system and bound to get sick at some point, or don't kill it because it potentially can contribute more to the population. It's been debated for years and will continue to be for years....

Some people might not like me "hogging" this thread....but I couldn't be having more fun. Debates like this are the core of all scientific research and discovery, and do nothing but make people think....fantastic that Jimfish started this and I hope everyone can get something out of it. But on the otehr hand, feel free to tell me to shut up!!!

Lure in the throat...VERY good chance of future death.....no food in the stomach, not uncommon this time of year, but they looked pretty fat, so i would have to say that they weren't missin many meals. I would have to say that having too many big fish...not a crucial issue unless there are enough to deplete the forage base enough as to make food scarce, its dynamic so it would take a caouple of bad year classes in the panfish populations as well....not common, but potential for ocurrence.

Did any of you ever stop and think that the reason that you aren't seeing more large fish caught ISN'T because of an occasional fish being taken, but due to the LARGE amounts of tournements being fished? There are and I wouldn't say vast, but large amounts of 4+ pounders in most lakes in CT, but after being hooked and brought in they are a lot more reluctant to take another lure. Correct me if I'm wrong (Dusty I'm sure your following this thread) but wasn't there a study that proved that bass learn, and once they are hooked by certain types of lures they learn to avoid them? Also was there ever a study done to see how long it takes for a fish to be recaptured? Yes I agree with you that taking a large amount of large fish out of a system is not good, and everyone is up in the air about me taking a fish. Jon was the only one that was productive enough in his posts to give me the idea to check after the federation tourney to get the bass that wouldn't make it after a weigh in. In retrospect though think about it, he said that his father had about 20 fish a couple of years ago after a weigh in there. Which is worst me taking ONE BASS, or just one tourney out of MANY where there are 20+ dead bass after weight in, and you can be sure those fish were in the 3+ lb category. I've only fished a few tourneys up here 7-8 at the most but I can distictively remember atleast 2 that I fished where on the way back to weigh in I saw dead bass in the water where some "C&R" angler throw them out to not lower their score. In the snowball tourney there was a dead bass that had to be atleast 3lbs dead in the water (Would have scooped it out if I could) and people actually laughed about it at the weigh in saying it was the only bass they saw all day....to me that is disgusting. I think what Dusty said in his post is probablly correct that the increased tourneys are actually doing worst for the size/population of the bass then me taking my one fish. The creel limit change doesn't matter, if you change it to 2 fish limit, it doesn't matter, most people that fish and keep fish on a REGULAR basis don't do it leagally anyway. I took 6 fish, one would have more then likely died anyway. That's 6 fish for the entire year, and only because IT WAS ONLY the end of the season and I haven't caught squat up until now even in a range to try and keep. I enjoy the taste of bass, and I don't think 6 fish kept for the entire year is out of the question. Usually I don't catch anything up here in CT, but when I fished in SC, I'd keep an ocassional 1.5-2lber which in the Santee Cooper Lake System 175K Acres is a DROP IN THE BUCKET. The only fish I'd target to keep on a regualr basis was catfish, and I don't hear anyone complaining about me doing that. Yes the bass need to be protected, yes something needs to be done to protect our resources for the future, but it needs to happen from all sides I.E. recreational boating, pollution, stricter enforcement for those that do not LEGALLY take fish, and YES maybe even less tournements per year on a lake, but overall I think the DEP is doing a good job. So get off my case about me keeping the fish I did, it was legal. Most of those complaining won't even fish Lake-X because there is no way to even remotely get your $30+ bass boat into it. It is a shame though, a shame that the sport has come to this, I.E. all the posts I've read "Cheating in Tourneys", "Dead fish after Tourneys" etc. I fished Tourney's this year and spent some money doing it and got $0 back for fishing them, do you hear me complaining? NO I had a good time, met some great folks and learned. I for one plan to try and fish alot of the tourneys next year and one thing I am going to POSITIVELY do is make sure I can do everything in my power to provide as stressless environment for any fish I catch. Hopefully next year I can outfish some of you Sorry if I YET AGAIN pissed off someone else, just tired of the whinning....

VegaX1 and Dusty,

Just a few points. Over harvest of large fish doesn't stunt a population. In theory if you harvested large fish to the point that they couldn't replenish the system then you would have recruitment overfishing, which I still believe is not documented for any black bass fishery. Stunting of populations is usually due to limited resources, not removing large fish. Think about it in simple terms. If your lake can support 20 bass over the 7 lb mark and you remove 12 of those bass, you won't stunt the rest of the fish. More fish will fill that niche.

Also, it's tough to compare fish and deer when it comes to reproduction. Granted a 7lb bass has already passed on her good genes, but it's the fecundity of the fish that make them so beneficial to the population. A doe usually has 2 fawns, but can range from what?...1-3. A 7lb female bass may produce 2 million eggs (this is just a hypothetical number, I'm not familiar with their SPR/fecundity stuff). It's the sheer number of eggs produced that is important.

And lastly, something that has already been brought up, and you can argue it all you want but you would be wrong. The mortality in relation to tournaments and catch and release is much greater than harvest in most black bass fisheries...period.

I posted this in an older thread. I thought I'd post it again here in this thread.