Jon good points all around. I am sure the Lake Zoar authority and Lilly's authority are waiting with baited breath as well.If this bill passes we as fisherman are going to take a big hit financially. I for one cannot afford to pay lake fees on every lake I fish. The rising cost of living prohibits that. So you guys that say it's just $50.00 beware, it may be $50.00 at each lake you fish.
#926719 - 03/07/0810:59 AM
Re: Bill Has Been Raised for Candlewood Lake Boat Use Permits HB5828
[Re: CTBASSIN]
mattmann7
Member
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 3995
Loc: wethersfield ct
if the intent was to be fair than the answer is a user fee. which by all accounts exists but is not implemented. id be willing to pay to park at 10 dollars a day. thats a reasonable fee. the lake has a federal deed to be accessable to the public unbiased. the point that lee makes to me is the strongest and most valid one. there are 6000 boats moored or docked on the lake. the developement rate is such that the number will increase unabated. the access points to the public remain in a locked position as far as the numbers. the 200 boats that park and launch are not the problem. by numbers alone they are dwarfed by the resident boats. this 50 fee will eventually be a lottery to locals who are willing to ante up. the end result will be a semi private lake. thats not unbiased access. when i attended the state BASS meetings in the 90s we were briefed on a national trend that was taking root. that trend was the political clout of lake associations. what was being warned against was that they would be in a fight to restrict public access to their lakes. the fight is on.
#926738 - 03/07/0812:02 PM
Re: Paying to use your boat on Candlewood
[Re: RonA]
tommy
Member
Registered: 04/23/05
Posts: 5270
Loc: Danbury
On page 7 I posted my opinion on this. Yamar, I totally agree with you on the CLA getting more power, they hate fishermen and will do anything to keep you off THEIR lake.
#926746 - 03/07/0812:22 PM
Re: Paying to use your boat on Candlewood
[Re: tommy]
Stormshadow
Member
Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 5821
Loc: Northford
If anything is bad about this bill, it is that it sets PRECEDENT, and other lake associations will end up doing the same thing. Hate Candlewood? Never fish it because of the crowds? Never fish it because you live on the other side of the state? You had BETTER care because if this bill passes, it's coming to a lake near you shortly.
Jon, excellent post and good points by the others in the last few posts. One point we have all been making is that this will bleed into every lake in Ct. that has a lake association and public access. There is no legal way the state can fence this sticker program into only Candlewood. If this goes through you will eventually be forced to buy stickers on any public access lake you fish. This is why I made the point it will backfire on Candlewood since everyone will buy a Candlewood sticker and it will actually increase useage. Not collecting fees is stupid. Another reason they charge "for parking only" is liability. They do the same at Squantz Pond in the summer and only charge a few bucks per car even though they come up from the city in vans. The rationale is to avoid law suits when someone drowns by using a defense that they only charge for parking and not to use the lake. Absolutely stupid but this was told to me from right at the top of the DEP. Now for a little emphasis. Guys who trap, hunt and fish have been defending against exclusion/elimination attempts on trapping and hunting since the 1970s. The attack on fishing is a new experience for most of you who only fish. This Candlewood sticker program is the most draconian event ever proposed, that affects the fishing community, in any state at any time, in my adult life. Most of you will do nothing about it and whine like hell when it gets passed and then duplicated on your favorite piece of water. You are about to lose the ability to fish throughout the state with free and reasonable access. This will be duplicated in other states. Towns will claim "their section" of the Ct. River. And so on. It will all be hailed as a great advancement in environmental planning, etc. but the objective was to keep you off "their" lake and if you have to use it there will be a financial burden that becomes a practical economic barrier to entry and use. If you don't take some time to understand this issue and its ramifications then you deserve what you will get. Call your state rep and state senator and tell them to vote NO and give them the reasons why and an alternative. I offered one view of an alternative in a previous post but that is only my opinion and thoughts, come up with your own too. The Housy dumping issue last year was stopped by this site. It is that simple. People on this site made the difference because a few took the lead with a majority participating. Sticker programs on public access lakes is far more draconian than dumping crud in the Housy. The guys on the site who live around Candlewood can well afford the 50 bucks, we will get our stickers, but we will also fight for your access to the lake to be fair and reasonable. The real losers are not us Candlewood guys, it is the rest of you. Because this deal screws you on Candlewood and will end up screwing you on every other public access lake you fish in Ct. So get involved right now so at least you can have the clear conscience that you tried to do your part to protect your interests.
#926809 - 03/07/0803:11 PM
Re: Paying to use your boat on Candlewood
[Re: Buck]
BigLee
Member
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 1132
Loc: New Milford CT
Buck this raises a very interesting question.
If the state will not collect user fees and launch fees because of the legal liabilities doesn't this also leave the CLA in the same predicament?
Would they not also have the same liability issues? It would seem if this goes through they put all the towns in very precarious liability position. Any one can claim the Lake Patrol is at fault because there are not enough officers to prevent some fool from injuring himself. Of course you could have a patrol officer on every boat and some body would figure out a way to get hurt.
Just how much enforcement is necessary? I must come into proximity of 20000 cars on my way to work each week and never get pulled over to check my lights, seatbelts, license, etc. Why do I get pulled over at least once a year to check for things such life vests, Registration, Fire extinguisher, and such. Why is it that I have been involved in tournaments for over 20 years from Buggs Island NC, The red river in Louisiana, The Mississippi In Quincy Ohio, Lake Erie Lake Ontario, Lake Champlain, the Patomic River. Lake Sacdaga and only been pulled over on Candlewood Lake for these complementry safety checks ?
Last year was the best, I was checked out twice in 5 minutes while using only my trolling motor at dusk. Was told on my second stop that he thought my factory installed bow light was not centered right. That is why he stopped me. That one is a classic
Have a safe time on the water and may that tight line be pulling back.
A member of Schaghticoke Bassmasters http://members.tripod.com/~bassmasters_ct/index.html A member of the TBF. The Bass Federation Tournament Bass Fishing for everyone. http://www.ct-tbf.com/
Yes, the same theory that bothers the DEP's Parks Division about liability could apply to the five towns through the CLA. Also, the state law for landowner liability release for hunters, trappers, fishermen and anyone else given written permission to use private lands by the landowner only applies if the land use is free. If you charge then under Ct. statute you are not protected from liability. That is another reason the DEP charges only for parking, not "useage" because their own state statutes creates for them a liability if they charge for use. So the CLA incurs this liability for the five towns by charging a useage sticker. By the way, the DEP has been relatively silent on the whole issue but internally there are divisions that are against the sticker program for many reasons. It is not something they would initiate.
#926867 - 03/07/0806:30 PM
Re: Paying to use your boat on Candlewood
[Re: Buck]
MikeV
Member
Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 2468
Loc: Tolland
I live on the opposite side of the state and have never fished Candelwood nor do I have any intention of ever fishing there. While I have no direct interest in Candelwood, I am keenly interested in how any precidents set will affect the rest of the lakes in the state. As a realtively impartial observer there is some truth in both points of view. Over crowding is a safety issue. More resources if properly spent can increase safety.
Based on what has been presented, it seems that anything other then a very reasonable launch fee would be a real attempt to restrict useage.
My only experience with a lake association is Snipsic which is located in Vernon/Tolland/ Ellington. It is truely a gem. It is unspoiled and has a handful of houses on it at best. The lake is owned by the CT Water Copmpany(it is a resiviore for part of Vernon). This is the same CT Water Company whose line broke in town, flooded a homeless shelter below it and then offered only partial payment causing a the Tri-Town Shelter ( of which I have been a board member for over 14 years. Pleae note I am speaking as an individual and my thoughts and opinions are not those of the board)to have to rebuild a large retaining wall at a cost of roughly $28,000. I point that out as a reference to the character of the organization that is involved. CT Water company a few years back signed over the access right supervision of the lake with the stipulation that there be public access to the Snipsic Lake Association. Since then, The Snipsic Lake Assocition unvailed the mother of scams. They indicated that because of the impending threat of zebra muscle ifestation, all boats (electric motor only) must be quarinteed for a minimum of two weeks by the Snipsic Lake Assocaition. The association has a couple of dozen spots on racks that they built that have filled up before 10:00am on the opening day that they become available. After that, you can not quaranteen your boat with them, so you can not use the lake. Bottom line, is thatI have been chased off the lake on multiple occassions because my Kayak that had seen water in months posed a significant threat to their lake.
The point of this rather long winded saga is that where there are lakes and people creating legislation for the good of the public; there is an excelent chance that the public will get screwed. I do not know the parties involved, but I would trust them about as far as I could throw them. You guys that use and wish to continue to use that lake, stop wasting time debating the issue on this web site. Pool your resources and hire the best lawyer you can find because the guys "out for the public good" play for keeps. Just this guys opinion.
#926880 - 03/07/0807:13 PM
Re: Bill Has Been Raised for Candlewood Lake Boat Use Permits HB5828
[Re: CWood Man]
Crazy Ivan
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 18009
Loc: New Milford, and Anywhere Salt...
Originally Posted By: CWood Man
Yup your right. And alot of lakes have passes you pay for or launches like Vets Park in Norwalk is $15. We go go round and round and I am just getting to dizzy so I know where I stand, which is in the middle because I am a fisherman at heart that lives on an over crowded, over developed lake.
$25 on the weekend actually. $20 week day.
Chris,
What is it, $8 to launch at the Orchards??
Free at Latins....
I'm not fat, I'm fluffy!
Judge Smails:
"Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat. But the man worth while is the man that can smile with his shorts too tight in the seat."
It is basically free at Squantz launch too because the booth isn't manned a lot during the week and on weekends fishermen are launched before the attendant shows up. If the DEP can't execute a proper revenue strategy for Lattins and Squantz they should turn the operation over to the CLA as a DEP vendor and allow them to run it and retain the revenue and then maybe we won't need to come up with these revenue schemes like useage stickers. Very simple, operate both like O'Hara's on East Twin. On weekends in the spring until Memorial Day and every day until Labor Day and then on weekends to the end of October you man the booth from 8am to 6pm. When the attendant arrives he/she does an inventory of the cars in the lot recording their license plate number and putting an envelope on the window which they deposit with money in a lock box or with the attendant when they leave, just like you pay O'Hara's when you launch early. Those that don't pay are mailed a fine/ticket like any motor vehicle parking infraction. The CLA has lots of summer hire/weekend help and volunteers. This is a cash cow and so simple to operate even a caveman could do it. The current mis-management is scandalous.
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