Val, I didn't post info from some other source, I know from being an Army officer that you rarely get an honorable discharge when you are released from the service early, like Kerry was released. The most common discharge under those circumstances would be a general discharge but it is possible that Kerry received a dishonorable discharge due to his anticipated activities as an anti-war protestor and leader. That is what we don't know, general or dishonorable discharge, and we will not know because he refuses to sign a simple release that would release all of his military records and therefore, the government is holding back some 100 documents per government released statements.
If you go to Kerry's website and look around you may find his "honorable" discharge document but if it is entirely loaded to the website I am sure you will see it is dated sometime during the Carter administration. That would be 1978 or so but Kerry's full term in the Navy would have been up in 1972 at which time, if he had fulfilled his obligation, he would have automatically received an honorable discharge and papers dated 1972. That doesn't appear to be the case. It appears that somehow Kerry's honorable discharge was part of Carter's amnesty program, which I might add he administered the day of his inauguration. There would be no reason to do this, especially at the presidential level, if he had received an honorable discharge in 1972.
In addition, a dishonorable discharge also revokes any medals and honors received during the person's service period. Kerry threw his medals away and you can't just go and get new medals. When I went to get my medals issued for formal wear for a white tie and tails reception in NYC for the German government I had to present my military documents which allowed the company to prepare my formal medals. Kerry did not have this paperwork, and could not get his medals reissued, and it was not until he was elected to the Senate, after the Carter administration, that Kerry's request for reissuing his medals was honored by the government.
Val, this is history, a chronology of events that Kerry hides by not releasing his military records. I know that you will not agree, and a few here on the thread will want to sympathize with you, but for those who are moderates, independants and undecided, this has to be food for thought. As far as who is irrelevant, well, we will let others decide that.

Let members see for themselves who is lying.

This is Kerry\'s Record of Discharge.

It is dated on the upper right '17 FEB 72'.
Below: Type of discharge certificate - HONORABLE.

You are referring to Acceptance of Discharge Naval Reserve .

It is dated JUL 13 '78.

Do you, as an officer, understand the difference between discharge from Active Duty and from Naval Reserve???

So Buck, you are lying again! As a fellow officer and a gentleman, how dare you slander Kerry? How dare you claim that Dubya served with honor? Give us all a break.

Let me remind you what I said before:

I dare you to produce any records or, even better, witnesses to prove that Dubya fulfilled his obligations to the ANG in 1972-1973. Don't bother to show some records of his dental appointments or bills from the local bar in Alabama.

Don't cry about it! Don't blame me or the democrats or the liberals for your lack of benies and paid time off! You made your own choices , take responsibilty for your choices, being self employed was your choice!

Why don't you get a new job? Go to work for the state, you can get the same benies I have, no one is stopping you.

How do you like it when someone turns your own arguments and logic around on you?

I got everything I have on my own too! No one gave me anything! I earn those benies! They are part of the compensation I get for the job I do! Not a gift from the state!

You continue to make condescending and insulting remarks!

Buck,

As I have said before, I respect your service, your experience, and your opinions, even when I disagree. And on this point I must do so; there is no way that anyone can convince me that George Bush's military service was in any way satisfactorily fulfilled. He used his father's influence to get a cushy N.G. post, and then failed to properly fulfill his obligations.

I believe he then went on to use that same privilege and influence to get a "pass" and his discharge. Sorry, sir, I just can't agree with you here, even though I believe the arguments you make are made in good faith on your part.

At the same time, Kerry's service does little to impress me. You make some very good points about his three purple hearts, his abbreviated tour of duty, and his early discharge. Again, this is not a deciding factor in my vote, nor do I think it should be for anyone. I also agree with you, Buck, that Kerry has made too much of his service record, and invited this type of scrutiny and that he opened the door to this line of discussion.

Like I said in another post, I disagree with you on this point, Buck, and I personally have a bigger problem with Bush's service record than I do with Kerry's. That's just my opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours.

Respectfully,

Jim

Partaigenosse JFM,

I called Buck "intellectually dishonest" for a reason. He at least makes an attempt to reason, i.e. he uses his brain on behalf of the Right Wing ideology.

I cannot call you "intellectually" anything. Talking to you is very draining, like to somebody in a coma.

You wonder about my mysterious problem with the "system". Keep wondering. It is good for you. Sort of mental stimulus for your comatose brain.

BTW, this is the last post where I acknowledge your existence.