You didn't look at the film, did you ostrich....er....nu2salt?

You certianly aren't one to let facts get in your way, are you?

LMAO!

Ice,

I saw the first third or so of the film, but I am experiencing technical difficulties with my computer.

Question:

What is your issue?

A. Kerry is lying.

B. Kerry broke some "code" by blowing the whistle on war crimes and atrocities.

C. Kerry is telling the truth but there is nothing wrong with what some of our troops did in Vietnam.

D. Kerry is a hypocrite because he did the same things.

Answer carefully, you didn't do very well on my last multiple choice quiz!

(Remember?

A. Taxes

B. The Economy

C. Internal security and the safety of your children.) :p

I am watching it as I am typing. So far I have seen nothing to support your views. You are certainly entitled to them, but do not attempt to portray them as "facts". They are merely your opinions based upon your personal interpretation of the information you have viewed, nothing more nothing less.

I also notice that you assert that his testimony is fabricated. Therefore, your answer is A. Kerry is lying.

Question number 2.

How old are you? How old were you in 1971? What do you recall first hand of the Vietnam War?
Do remember the much publicized massacre back then? Forgive me, the name of the village escapes me. Mai lei? Something like that.

Do you not understand that Kerry's testimony was factual, and that he offered that not as condemnation of our troops, but rather as condemnation of the war itself, so as to help to convince the government to get out of Vietnam? Do you not understand that the film you have provided a link to is already grossly inaccurate?

1) It asserts that the Vietnam War was the only foreign war we did not win. I think they forgot Korea!

2) It asserts that the reason the war was not won was because of the popular oppostion to it, and not because of anything done on the battlefield.

I must disagree. The war was lost because the government would not allow the military to conduct a war in a manner designed to secure victory. And the military underestimated what it would take to accomplish the objectives in question, and did not give the Johnson administration accurate, effective information on which to base it's decisions. The Vietnam War was the most politicized war in our history, up until the Iraq War, and we are repeating the same mistakes we made then.

A big part of the problem was Secy. of Defense Robert Macnamara, who did not give Pres. Johnson good counsel. Another part of the problem was the joint chiefs, who did not give sound military advice, and often miscalculated important information, like enemy troop strenth. But the single biggest problem was that we were fighting an enemy who was not in uniform and did not fight in a conventional manner, as we had done in WWII, or even in Korea. The only way we could have won that war would have required the complete and total conquest of the North, and we were politically and diplomatically not prepared to do so, due to our justified fear of Russia and China becoming directly involved on the ground. It was from the very beginning an unwinnable war, that neither Kennedy, nor Johnson, ever wanted, but Johnson was forced into by events beyond his control and by factions in our government and our military eager to confront "the red menace".

Even though I realize it is a movie, and not "fact" per se, for an interesting look at the Vietnam war, try to obtain and view, "Rolling Thunder", an HBO film with Alec Baldwin as Macnamara and Donald Sutherland as one of Johnson's personal advisors (name escapes me), I don't recall who played Johnson, but it was an interesting movie, and made some good points.

Anyway, the rest of your film is probably loaded by now....

Icebuster:

You say Kerry is a murderer...a lot of Iraqis who we declared an unjust war on would say that very same thing about Bush. He has hurt the ability of our homeland security by sending our troops all over the world and spreading us too thin while lying about reasons for doing so.

We left Bin Laden and the chase for him becuase Bush thought it was good enough to get people in the chain of command (who could be easily replaced) and went on and on about how he was crippling al-Queda, so Iraq (who wasn't athreat at the time to the US)was next. But since we abandonded the chase for Bin Laden al-Queda has struck again numerous times and we have lost TOO MANY troops for an UNCONSTITUTIONAL war while not EVEN COMING CLOSE to stopping the original culprit. Then you have two countries getting stronger in the way of weapons of mass destruction but with nothing being done about that. Once again I just call that good leadership by Bush/Cheney, or is it just time FOR A CHANGE.

Zippy: Stop preachin'.....Shut the thread down...

Oh, I forgot.....All you guys were a-scared a shuttin' dis garbage down while Mitch was away, an' now's he's back, yer all dumpin' in ya pants an' afreed ta do nottin.....

oooh....,oooh....my boat's a rockin' in laughter! :p