Spin,

Great post, thank you for sharing that with us!


Catch n Release, Well done!


Jon h, I just thought of something else: You said,

"I don't think it really matters what sandy desert country in the middle east this war is fought at."

Then why don't we take this to Saudi Arabia, a vocal detractor (to put it mildly!) of the U.S. and a well known and well documented sponsor and supporter of terrorism and Islamic extremism? Not to mention the native land of Bin Laden and his entire family!

Could it be because, hmmmm.... W. and his daddy, and their "pals" (read "political contributors") in defense and oil have done extensive business with the Saudi's for YEARS, and billions and billions of dollars trade hands between them and the Saudis? hmmmmm....


Mitch, Bush does not POSSESS character, he IS a character, as in CARTOON CHARACTER!

CHARACTER? PUHLEEZE!?! Would a man of character have used his brother/Governor of Florida, and his campaign manager/Secretary of the State of Florida (both of whom acted in that order, I might add!) to hijack the election of 2000 and rob the American people of their right to elect their leaders?

Would a man of character willfully misrepresent (read "lie") to the entire world, the threat posed by Hussein and Iraq and the intellegence gathered about his so-called WMD's?

And as to leadership, I refer you to the eloquent words of Mr. Eisenhower:

"Leadership involves setting a direction and building consensus, not viewing other countries as practically devoid of significance. Recent developments indicate that the current Republican Party leadership has confused confident leadership with hubris and arrogance."

I admire your criteria, Mitch; character and leadership are certainly valuable traits in a President. Unfortunately, Mr. Bush has neither. What he has is a single minded, self-serving, elitist agenda, that is not in the best interests of the vast majority of the people of this country or the rest of the world. And he will stop at nothing to carry it out, including lying and spreading propaganda and disinformation in order to gain the support of loyal, patriotic, well-meaning Americans like you and Jon and others here and elsewhere, including folks in my own family. The reason you can relate to him when he speaks is because HE is the one who is telling people what they want to hear, instead of telling the truth, and thinking critically about the issues. He is appealing to the nationalist, patriotic spirit of well meaning, yet misled Americans like yourself and others.

I respectfully disagree with you about Mr. Kerry being inconsistent and all over the map and changing what he says depending upon who he is addressing. I have not found him to be inconsistent. He is simply astute enough to see things from all perspectives and to consider them when he addresses them. I try to do that myself. And as to "waffling" I think that he is simply intelligent enough to be able to augment his position as necessary based upon new information or changing dynamics.

It doesn't take courage or leadership to stick to an ill conceived, single minded, one track message or agenda, or wrong headed direction; just a lack of critical thinking ability, a lack of creativity, and a lack of flexibility. Resorting to war in Iraq was clearly a mistake; it was premature, unjust, and poorly undertaken. Granted, once he committed us, we must now finish the job. But Bush is not the one to do so.

When I combine these 3 factors:

1) the 2000 election and the shenanigans in Florida, with

2) our failed foreign policy (which includes how Bush lied and took us to war prematurely and unnecessarily, as well as his unilateral, cowboy, attitude and disdain towards our allies), and

3) our sagging econonmy, and the tax cuts that favored corporate interests and the wealthy, as well as the budget deficit,

I can see absolutely no redeeming qualities in this man which would entitle him to my vote.

I don't expect a President to agree with me on every issue. But I do expect a President to be morally and intellectually honest enough to know right from wrong (no Clinton references, please! That was his personal business and had no impact whatsoever on me or the country). Bush has proven that he does not. He has been wrong on foreign policy, wrong on the economy, and was wrongly appointed as "KING" of the U.S. in 2000 in the first place.

This man has got to go!

Well said nu2salt.Thanks for allowing the thread mitch.

Want to read an interesting article on Mr. sKerry?Give this one a gander. Most illuminating, and rather entertaining, to boot.

http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleid.18218/article_detail.asp

As for an unbiased website, (the best I've ever seen, bar none), on where the ALL the canidates stand, try out this site:

http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush.htm

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/John_Kerry.htm

(I linked both canidates to make it easy. Senate and house canidates are here, as well. Wonderful site!)

Naugy Joe:

Does it matter at all that John Kerry is the most Liberal of all the US Senators??

FACT: He is soft on defense, no matter what position he claims to finally have put together. I find it amazing that someone can listen to his back and forth wishy-washy positions on Terrorism and Iraq and believe that it comes from his heart.

If you want a man, with a several decade long position of poor defense support, intelligence cutting and the undermining of our troops, then please go vote for this man.

Seems the few simple words of a good orator are enough to convince many. I suppose forgetting his track record is merely a convienience.

Look at what he's done the past 30 years and tell me if it is in alignment with what he claims he will be doing.


Ha !! That's not the position of the majority of those who were in Vietman with him. Please read, "Unfit for Command". NOT ONE FACT has been disproven in this book.

John

This is not even half of the Bush family tree.
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm
When Bush (1) lost the election the Clinton, He and two of his sons (Marvin and Neil) went on vacation and spent it with the royal Saudi family, each of them came back to America with thousands of dollars worth of gold bracelets and neckleces on their arms and necks, undeclared by the customs, Do a search folks, find out about your president, Michael Moore has been too damn good to him and he's just told a little of the truth.



Did any of you know that even as far back as 1942 the Bush family was doing business with Americas enimies.
In October 1942, ten months after entering World War II, America was preparing its first assault against Nazi military forces. Prescott Bush was managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman. His 18-year-old son George, the future U.S. President, had just begun training to become a naval pilot. On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City which were being conducted by Prescott Bush.
Kerry may not be the best choice but he's the best choice we have for now, I do not care for him or his politics but he's getting my vote and anyone that i can drag to the poles.
take the time to do a search on all his white house gang. read up on the New American Century, the whole white house gang is part of it,
http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_010603_pnac.html

Anyone that votes for Bush and has a friend or relitive killed in a forign land has no one to blame but them selves.

remember, Iran and Korea are both in the on deck circle and if Bush gets in again, there will be no stopping him,and his gang, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Rove, Rummy,James Woolsey and some high up military generals.
Kerry may have tossed his medals. Talks like a nerd and is not aguy that you want to fish or party with but he is there for America and the people, right now we need someone to get America back on the rifgt track..JMHO