I understand that most of you share a deep passion for politics and I also understand that not to be involved in government and or a political process inevitably leads to being led by your inferiors, but over 1020 posts on a fishing site...
Just vote and fish...
It is the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it.
What you do should speak so loudly that no one can hear what you say."
#397923 - 10/17/0401:47 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
stripermanofsteel
If i'm not here I'm fishing
Registered: 09/26/02
Posts: 2525
Loc: Southington, Westbrook (boat
Bin Laden attacked us and yet we forget that during the Afgan-Russian conflict...WE the USA outfitted him gave him money and looked on him as a friend...if I'm not mistaken that was under Reagan and Bush's watch.
And about the "Patriot Act" does anyone else feel that this act is very close to being unconstitutional??? Miranda rights are not given, you can be detained for fitting a terrorist profile (being muslim, being arab, or giving to charity for orphaned children and widowed women only to find out it was a front for Al-queda) when racial profiling of blacks is illegal. So how is this "Act" worth anything other than better communication between law enforcement agencies(how hard is that to do without the un"Patriot Act"???
Stipermanofsteel: During the Soviet war in Afghanistan which lasted from December 1979 until 1988, the US economically supported the Afghan rebels in their fight with the USSR, and that was a good move. Carter refused to do so, and so Reagan undertook the task. Afghanistan was Russia's 'Vietnam' with about 18,000 troops killed. It was soon after that the Soviet system collapsed.
The US did send alot of money to the rebels, of which bin Laden was serving, but that was under the mujehadeen , not al-Qaeda. The latter was created after the end of Soviet occupation.
The mujehadeen were a collective alliance of warlords and other elevated figures that united to thwart the USSR (it also united Muslims, since many volunteers from outside Afghanistan came--among them bin Laden).
After the Soviet collapse, the country was torn by a civil war, and a power vacuum emerged that allowed the Taliban control of much of the country in the mid-1990s.
Bin Laden himself donated large shares of money that he took in from a prosperous contracting business that he owned (and liberals complain about Halliburton :p )
Remnants of the forces that we supported, thus became the Northern Alliance, who were coincidentally the same forces we supported in the October 2001 campaign against the Taliban. Their forces launched offensives from the northeast corner, Panjshir (sp.) valley, and their leader (assassinated Sept. 9, 2001) Ahmad Shah Masoud fought for democracy in his country. These were the true recipients of that capital that we sent. Unfortuanately the US turned its back on Afghanistan and it took 9/11 to face the issue again.
#397925 - 10/17/0402:46 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Baitrunner
Member
Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 1366
SMOS, your post is full of 1/2 truths. We did, indeed, support the Mujahadeen against the Soviets, in Afganistan, but never Bin Laden, directly. He is a multi-millionaire, and was never in need of our funding.
A case could be made that the members of the future Taliban had once been Muj, and received US support. Most of our support went to 2 factions: Hekmatyer(?), a duplictious, Chiang Kai-Shek like Pashtun, and the "Lion of Pashmir", Ahmad Shah Massoud, an ethnic Tadzhik, whose reputation was brilliance personified. He was assassinated by Al Queda 9/09/01, two days before our own 9/11, in a deal struck betwwen the Taliban and Osama, for sanctuary. Hekmaktayer(?) eventually struck his own amnesty deal with the Taliban to save his own, cowardly hide.
As for the "Patriot Act", I'll not debate it's worthiness, as I'm not a fan of the Act, by any stretch of the imagination. If nothing else, it should remind us of the dangers of acting in rash haste, after a tragedy befalls us. I've posted on numerous occassions about its potential misuse against American citizens, for non-terrorist related activites, and some of these have already come to pass. Far as I'm concerned, this travesty of a legislative act, should just lapse into oblivion.
Lest I be accused of being too conciliatory, Your signature statement is a bit of a stretch. I believe I shall counter with one equally as ridiculous; "If you love being a stoned, under-achieving slacker tokin' weed in our National Parks, Preserves, and the "Environment", then, wow, Dude, Kerry is da bomb!"
PS. Ah, Henri', beat me to the punch, you scalawag, you!
"I think, that all right-thinking people, are sick and tired of being told that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I, for one, am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!"
SMOS-Its amazing how many conservatives fell freer and safer when they took away some rights with the patriot act.JFM since when have you been concerced with facts in this discussion?Stick to useless silly cartoons and leave the discussion to the more articulate conservatives.
#397927 - 10/17/0403:48 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Baitrunner
Member
Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 1366
Mr. Flag, Unfortunately, some conservatives fail to realize that, eventually, they will be out of power, (the pendelum always swings; ying and yang), and this act may well be used against them, for some obscure "crime".
Geez, what if Janet Reno had this act after Oklahoma City?? Crikey, me and 1/2 the gun owners in America would be slinging hash in the pokey; hell, we'd probably still be rotting there without Habeus Corpus.
I fear over-encompassing legislation from the left, as well. If Donna Brazille and her ilk had their way, I'm totally convinced that they like nothing better than to send me and my ilk to ""re-education" camps for "hate speech" or "hate thoughts".
Far-fetched, you say? Perhaps, but I've learned never to expect a lowest common denominator from the extremists in any politcal party. NOTHING surprises me, anymore.
"I think, that all right-thinking people, are sick and tired of being told that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I, for one, am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!"
So becaus eone writer says we lost the war in Iraq am I suppose to fall down and say "I need to vote for John Kerry now". What a bunch of **** in plain english. It is a OP ed piece nothing more.
What about the liberals invading the democratic party over the last 20+ years. I see the democratic party splintering in the near future with those of old time democratic views against the radical liberals we see on TV. One thing I can say about the republican party is they support their man even if they don't agree with him or her. Lets see if that happens in this election coming up for the democrats.
Kevin B you are wrong about the Michael Moore quote un-quote documantary. That was suppose to be factually but as most know it was not even close. I have not seen this documantary, but I will have a open mind as I tried to when I saw Moore's crap.
#397931 - 10/17/0409:38 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
John from Madison CT
OffshoreFishingGear.com
Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15914
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
Flagup wrote:
Quote:
Its amazing how many conservatives fell freer and safer when they took away some rights with the patriot act
Would you mind telling me what rights I have lost since the inception of the Patriot Act!?!?
I hear Libs throw this crap around .."I lost my rights", yet never met a person or spoke to one who showed me such an example.
For God sake, we are at War right here in the U.S.. Terrorists may be living among us. You and your ACLU buddies are trying your darndest to make it impossible for us to do any survelliance, or investigatory work to find them BEFORE they attack us.
That aside, please find me a person who's life has been changed by the Patriot Act.
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