Spun the hanging chad gave you away after all I'm a registered democrat.

well, I really don't believe it or see it, but those damned instant polls are giving the debate to edwards?????

Cheney was an ass, but that was in character.

I didn't see anything to tilt it, both guys made points, maybe irrelevant but they were on the punch list.

I guess it makes ratings.

go figure.

Henry L,

You know the neo-cons are desperate when they:

A.) equate you to terrorists

B.) compare the Constitutionally protected exercise of one's free speech, in order to protest immoral acts of war undertaken by a Supreme Court appointed, make-believe President, with "treasonous acts"

C.) denounce anyone who disagrees with them as traitors.

I am sure glad that there are reasonable VOTERS out on the water like Spunfisher, Spin, Val, Jimmy, Den, I've Got a Huge Dinghy, Kevin B, Gerg, Naugy Joe, Dave, Kynan, Flag-Up, Perchbutt, Pete128, CatchnRelease... I apologize if I have overlooked or forgotten anyone.

(And BTW, judging from Mitch's remarks, Baitrunner isn't really ON the water! :p )

If neo-cons fished like they conduct foreign affairs, there wouldn't be any fish left anywhere! They would have long since killed them all! (and all, no doubt, with bunker busters and daisy cutters!)

(And I have been known to cheer for a good fish that beat me!)


If the US gave Iraq those weapons, then why would they condemn the attack?

Are you kidding? Do you really expect the U.S. Government to be consistent in its foreign affairs, particularly when there is a Republikan President involved?

Don't you realize that we have propped up and/or subsequently deposed numerous evil dictatorships in recent history, often resulting in huge voids of legitimate authority, civil war, and gross instability?; Chile, Iran, Iraq, the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, the Phillipines, Panama...

Do you not know that we (CIA) trained Osama Bin Laden and gave him and his Afghan rebels 3 billion dollars?!?

First, who else is to blame FIRST for our FIRST strike against a sovreign nation which has committed no act of war against us? Who else should we blame for our unjust war in Iraq? Bin Laden? Hey, there's our excuse! It's all Bin Laden's fault! He blew up our towers, so we attacked Iraq! That makes sense! :rolleyes:

Second, if we were at war under a Democratic Presidency, and Republicans were whining and protesting in the streets blaming America first, and I heard you calling your own party "Treasonous", I would be the FIRST to defend their right to free speech! And denounce YOU as a traitor for trying to undo the rights, freedoms, and protections provided under our Constitution! YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!

Whatever happened to "I may not agree with what you are saying but would defend to the death your right to say it." ?

No war is ever worth even fighting if along the way we sacrifice, lose, or surrender even ONE of those RIGHTS guaranteed by the Constitution. THAT is what we fight for! THE CONSTITUTION! THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT: THE CONSTITUTION! That's what we want to share with the rest of the world, the rights, freedoms, and protections that we hold in such high regard. That is what FREEDOM is all about! You cannot defend freedom or try to bring it to other countries, while simultaneously depriving others here or elsewhere of theirs. You end up defeating your very purpose!

What part of this do you neo-cons NOT GET!!


The reason you never cried when Clinton intervened in Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, Sudan, or Afghanistan, is you saw a just cause and a legitimate action. When he retreated from Somalia you likewise agreed that he was doing the right thing under the circumstances.

Otherwise, if you remained silent out of some misplaced sense of loyalty, yet felt strongly that he was wrong, THEN YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AND HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF! If that is the case, then shame on you!

As you can all tell by now, I was unable to get online last night. My wife was using the computer for her stupid job! :rolleyes:

I went FISHING! with Dble Haul, at the Wethersfield Cove, with our COMMIE flyrods, for those LIBERAL Hickory Shad! :p

We each got one, he lost one cuz I got in his way casting while he was fighting it, and he had two other strikes. There were a few breaking and some bait scattering, but it never really turned on. And it was COOOLD!! out there last night.

I got back in time to see the "debate"! :rolleyes:

But I couldn't stay awake either! I thought it was the fresh air, but apparently it had the same effect on everyone. There were a couple of interesting exchanges, but they were few and far between.

Cheney is a bright boy, I'll give him that. I agree, it's clear who's REALLY running the show! At least he can speak intelligently and has a command of "facts" such as they are.

I still don't trust him and believe him to be an opportunistic, fascist, greedy, corporate puppet!

I think Edwards held his own overall, but could have been more dynamic and pointed in some of his arguments.

Can't wait till Friday!

I wish Edwards brought up some of the issues in the debate mentioned in this article (click me) , especially those copied below. They are in the form of questions to the VP. Maybe some of our neo-cons here would like to answer for their beloved Dr. Evil.

"2. Why were maps of Iraqi oil fields and pipelines included in the documents reviewed by the administration's energy task force, the National Energy Policy Development Group, which you headed during the first months of 2001? Did discussions about regime change in Iraq figure in the deliberations of the energy task force?

4. Considering the fact that your predictions about the ease of the Iraq invasion and occupation turned out to be so dramatically off the mark, and the fact that you were in charge of the White House task force on terrorism that failed, despite repeated and explicit warnings, to anticipate the terrorist threats to the World Trade Center, what is it about your analytical skills that should lead Americans to believe your claims that America will be more vulnerable to attack if John Kerry and John Edwards are elected?

5. Speaking of intelligence, were you or any members of your staff involved in any way in revealing the identity of Valerie Plame, a CIA operative who was working on weapons of mass destruction issues, after her husband, Ambassador Joe Wilson, angered the administration by revealing that the president made claims about Iraqi WMD programs that he and his aides had been told were unreliable?

6. During your tenure as secretary of defense, you and your staff asked a subsidiary of Halliburton, Brown & Root Services, to study whether private firms could take over logistical support programs for U.S. military operations around the world. They came to the conclusion that this was a good idea, and you began what would turn into a massive privatization initiative that would eventually direct billions of U.S. tax dollars to Halliburton and its subsidiary. Barely two years after you finished your service as secretary of defense, you became the CEO of Halliburton. Yet, when you were asked about the money you received from Halliburton - $44 million for five years' work - you said, "I tell you that the government had absolutely nothing to do with it." How do you define the words "absolutely nothing"?

7. No corporation has been more closely associated with the invasion of Iraq than Halliburton. The company, which you served as CEO before joining the administration, moved from No. 19 on the U.S. Army's list of top contractors before the Iraq war began to No. 1 in 2003. Last year alone, the company pocketed $4.2 billion in U.S. taxpayer dollars.

8. You have been particularly aggressive in attacking the qualifications of John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, to serve as commander in chief. You received five draft deferments during the 1960s, which allowed you to avoid serving in Vietnam. In 1989, when you were nominated to serve as secretary of defense, you were asked why you did not serve in Vietnam and you told the Senate that you "would have obviously been happy to serve had I been called." Yet, in an interview that same year, you told the Washington Post, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." Which was it - "proud to serve" or "other priorities"?

10. Mandela has said that, to his view, you are "the real president of the United States." Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill said of the first years of the Bush presidency, "Cheney and a handful of others had become 'a Praetorian guard' that encircled the president." O'Neill has also argued that the White House operates the way it does "because this is the way that Dick likes it." Why do you think that so many people, including veterans of this administration, seem to think it is you, rather than George W. Bush, who is running the country?"