Originally posted by SPUNFISHER: ...your beloved Bush administration has far more in common with the government of the old Soviet Union than any liberal president ever has.
Originally posted by SPUNFISHER: ...your beloved Bush administration has far more in common with the government of the old Soviet Union than any liberal president ever has.
Lie.
Not a lie, more like researched opinion. Read the comparisons again.
#397235 - 10/07/0411:51 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Anonymous
Unregistered
After reading the Polling Results that MadMike posted I was wondering if I had fallen asleep while watching baseball...., ah, um, I mean the debate.
Buck: I watch the entire debate, and then before any news anchor can put a spin on it, I shut the TV off and go to bed. Sometimes I just get so sick being told what I saw or heard.
John from Madison: Where is it exactly that you stand? :rolleyes:
Mitch: If you'd like, we could take a long car ride or fishing trip and argue about anything you want. You pick the side you want, and I'll take the other.
Nu2Pepper: Your productivity on this thread is inversely proportional to you proclivity. :p
Tackleman: What does the "other" person get to drink?
Where does E-Coli stand on this? I wonder if the view from the petri dish is magnified or minimized.
And lastly: The reason for the Electoral College is that the masses can not be trusted with the actual vote. Largely by virtue of their educations, or lack there-of, they are incapable of making competant decisions on anything of importance. As Hitler once stated, "The bigger the lie, the more the masses will believe it."
#397236 - 10/07/0411:57 AM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally posted by Mitch P.:
Quote:
Originally posted by SPUNFISHER: ...your beloved Bush administration has far more in common with the government of the old Soviet Union than any liberal president ever has.
Lie.
No Mitch. TRUTH!
I grew up in the USSR. I left in 1977 when I was 27. I spent my next 27 years in this country. So, don't take it from JFM who doesn't know squat about Communism. Take it from me.
The first 23 years in this country I lived and breethed FREEDOM.
The last four years has been a NIGTMARE - I am back in the USSR.
Mitch and Henry, you are too young and too protected from the reality of the world to understand it. You are smart, well read, and decent men. But your minds have been poisoned by a bunch of greedy and power hungry bastards. Please, stop taking all the BS from the Bush crowd. Start thinking for yourselves. There is still TIME. If you give Bush four more years he will destroy this country and make you slave labor in the Gulag USA.
Spunfisher: So you don't think I have any idea about Communism? Wrong my friend.
You are probably right, my friend. But the fact that I have touched a nerve with both you and Mitch would suggest that I at least know a little.
If I really appeared foolish or insane, surely there'd be nothing to prove by responding to my post, right? I mean, if I had the lone insane idea, wouldn't that be enough to prove that I am wrong?
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Holy Cow, you are truely a Communist.
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I didn't call Nu2salt a Communist, but rather that his idea that ones money is not theirs is Communist like.
Blatant contadictions? Can this be a "flip-flop" from Mr. John? Tisk tisk, so quick to judge, yet so inept to take that 30,000 foot view.
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BOTH of my parents grew up under Communist regimes in Europe. I know more freakin details then your liberally written text book knowledge.
I'm sorry to hear about the past struggles of your family. Growing up having parents with commie ideals must have been tough. I am trully happy you have persevered though. Seriously, that's a great testament to such a fine upbringing in the spirit of the pursuit for "The American Dream".
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Point by point your attempt to connect the Bush Gov. to being Communist-like is insane. Simply ridiculous and doesn't deserve an answer.
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No, YOU know nothing about Communism.
I know you are but what am I, I know you are but what am I, I know you are but what am I... :p
#397238 - 10/07/0412:21 PM
Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Anonymous
Unregistered
JFM,
Apparently, the concept I tried to share with you regarding a true and more reasonable and equitable redistribution of wealth is beyond your ability to envision. I realize that I am probably wasting my time, but there are a few points which I feel need to be addressed. I think enough has already been said about your juvenile name calling ("commie!"), so I won't go there any further.
I agree with Spunfisher, you apparently have no concept of what communism truly is, I don't care where your parents grew up. What I have suggested is in no way communist. It is simply a restructuring of our present tax structure, (and may at worst contain elements of socialism, which again are already present anyway). No more, no less. What I have said in no way suggests that "all wealth belongs to the state." Apparently, reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
I am skeptical of what you posted regarding the top 20% paying 80% of the taxes. That notwithstanding, within that top 20%, there is a huge disparity in incomes between the 80th percentile and the 90th or 95th, and I suspect that the bulk of the taxes paid, AS A PERCENTAGE OF ONES GROSS INCOME, is terribly skewed in favor of the 90th and 95th percentiles and above, vs. the 80th to 90th. (I'm probably confusing you again, sorry.)
Under what I am proposing, which includes narrowing the disparity in earnings from top to bottom, there wouldn't BE any more working poor, so everyone could afford to pay a flat percentage of their income to the government in the form of income tax, and would still have more than they do now, and we would collect more tax revenue. Then everyone is equally invested in our system and shares its burdens accordingly. Those who do not pay taxes under Bush live in such abject poverty that suggesting they are better off now, without having to pay taxes, merely shows just how out of touch you are with about two thirds or more of your fellow countrymen. Like I said, you really need to get out of Madison more often!
Wanna take a ride with me around Hartford, Bridgeport, Waterbury, New Haven, New Britain, Willimantic, New London, not to mention Meriden, Bristol, Middletown, and see where some of the kids I work with grew up and live? Wanna meet some of their parents? The difference between you and me is that I realize that I live better than probably 70% of the rest of the country, and while I am comfortable, that aint sayin' much; whereas you are apparently just as out of touch with that as W and Dick.
I cannot afford to give money to the poor because even making just shy of six figures my wife and I have all we can do just to keep our own boat floating. I don't have 3 or 4 or 5 extravagent, expensive homes, 6 cars, take several expensive vacations each year, own all kinds of luxury items, pay people to clean my home and cook for me, send my kids to expensive private schools, (my daughters are both paying for their own college educations, I help out with books, living expenses etc) and on and on ; we may not be struggling pay check to pay check, but we are definitely living month to month, and are extended just about to the limit of our incomes. And like I said, I aint livin' large, just comfortably. And that speaks volumes about how difficult it must be to make it on half or a fourth of what we make, and that, or less, is what the vast majority of our peers make. Again, 70% of the folks around me aren't doing as well as I am.
I always find it interesting when I hear people who believe as you do complaining about the amount of money allocated for welfare programs and such, but simultaneously supporting administrations and policies that provide ten times that amount of money in the form of corporate welfare and "tax incentives" to the wealthiest Americans. Those tax incentives for savings, retirement, etc., only benefit those that can afford them. I am not one of those people. Those programs do nothing for over two thirds of our citizens. That's like Bush saying he wants us to own our own health care and social security; that's great for those few who can afford to do so, but it disenfranchises the vast majority of us entirely.
There is plenty of excess at the very top which can be used to elevate those at the bottom, get them invested in the system, and get them some meaningful opportunities to earn a living wage. Do you even have the slightest clue what that means, a living wage? It appears not!
I agree with one thing you said, the current tax code is a redistribution of wealth, but you are the one who doesn't get it; it is a redistribution of wealth, UPWARDS, to those who already have it!
Try reading "The Politics of Rich and Poor" by Kevin Phillips, a former high ranking Republican strategist and advisor to Richard Nixon, among others, wherein he demonstrates how under Republican administrations going back over a century the rich have gotten disparitly richer, while the middle class and poor have gotten disparitly poorer. He also wrote a book in the last year or two, it's title escapes me at present, regarding the current Bush "dynasty" and how it threatens our very democracy and is geared to create a two class society by shifting power to the very wealthy and corporate America. It is a return to the old trust companies of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Getty's, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbiltds, American Steel etc., and the monopolization of our economy which ultimately led to the Great Depression.
The comparisons that Spunfisher made to communism and the Bush years is STARTLING, and is DEAD NUTS ACCURATE! Anyone who can't see that clearly believes that denial is a river in Egypt. It could not be more clear!:
Opposing the administration equates to being unpatriotic, (all over the media, stump speeches, and right here on this thread; I have now been called a traitor AND a communist!) CHECK!
Use of propaganda and repeated lies, ("Hussein was tied into 9/11, Hussein has WMD's") BIG CHECK!!
Economy suffers from the corrupt funnelling of funds to connected cronies instead of the general welfare of the populus, (Halliburton's no bid contracts and monopoly on defense contracting, Enron, to name just 2 examples) DOUBLE CHECK!!!
Monopolization of media, (not just Rupert Murdoch's Faux News, [btw, Murdoch had his nose so far up Reagan's behind it looked like Reagan was giving birth!] during the last 4 years conservatives connected with Bush went from owning and operating something like 4 major media operations to owning something like 120!), CHECK, CHECK, AND CHECK!!!!
Power consolidated into the hands of a very few, (Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, the Patriot Smack, I mean Act, the obvious disowning of Colin Powell and his State dept.) Quadruple CHECK!!!!!
Military attacks and occupations (please, this is just too easy!!) CCCCCHHHHHEEEECKKKKK!!!!!!
Disdain for international cooperation, equating intimidation through "hubris and arrogance" (in the words of Mr. Eisenhower) with "leadership",
CHECK MATE!!!
If Spunfisher hadn't told me he was talking about communism, I would have thought for certain that those points were all about the Bush administration! How can any intelligent, thinking person NOT see that!!
I am becoming more and more scared by the minute from talking to you!
I truly apologize for being so lengthy, I do not have Spunfisher's gift for brevity. I need to explain myself in great detail and feel this is a very complex issue.
Val, obviously I don’t presume to know life in the Soviet Union as well as you do.
But part of my passion for politics right now is directly related to what we’re now discussing.
Forgetting which candidate I like, what’s more important is that I feel our very freedom is at stake. If people are willing to kill thousands of innocent lives on our soil, we’ve got to take action to protect ourselves, our freedom, and our way of live.
And regardless of whether you feel being in Iraq works toward this goal, I do know this:
The U.S. remains the best country in the world.
In the part of CT where I live there are many, many immigrants from many countries – including my own fiancé. I’ve seen first-hand for years the stories of why people come this country. I see the sweat and labor they put in to send money back to their families and the hard work to make a real live for themselves here. These people aren’t looking to leave here any time soon.
Getting to my main point. To liken the U.S. to the old Soviet Union is an unfathomable thought to me. I’m not sure who or what, besides your dislike for Bush or the war in Iraq, would make you say that. But forgetting my own thoughts. Let’s look at the facts. Which of the two countries are people pouring over the border to get into every day? Case closed.
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