I have 2 sons. I think they look better in my family room than in a box.

My vote goes to Kerry.... With the understanding that bush already created the need for more box carpenters by his misguided tactics overseas.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103

There it is in black and white. I have a feeling you are quite capable of objectively researching and interpreting the data? Please be civil if you choose to respond to the info I provided.

Perhaps it is my fault for failing to understand the message you and Mitch have regarding this election. Is there anyway we can peacefully discuss our respective opinions without having either party fall back into a defensive posture? I promise I'll do my part in remaining calm.

Namecalling and needless labeling will no longer illicit any responses. It's apparant that we both love our country and after all is said and done, we ARE in fact on the same side.

I thank you in advance for you objectivity.

Spin : My "Liberal quote of the week" are AS IS from various political websites, books, or handouts. I am not altering them in any way. If you can find me more "accurate" sources, copy and send them to me and I'll have you to thank for my liberal quote of the week .

Nu2Salt : You were correct in asserting that my information may have clashed with the link Kevin B. posted. You may have over looked it, but I stated that the book is from 2000. The Duelfer report is fresh off the press. I admit that our intel was pathetic, and I have never been a fan of George Tenet. I feel he failed Clinton by not picking up on the bombings in Tanzania, Kenya, the Cole bombing; I feel he let Bush down by not alerting to 9/11 and Iraq's WMDs.

Also, how can you say my comment about Kerry's flip-flop on SUVs is "beneath me" when I have read several posts by you with language like "f**k"...and "F G W Bush" personally it is low class. I disagree with Joh Kerry but I don't hate him, and I maintain a debate using reasonable language. Let us be chivalrous in a debate.

I have mentioned this long ago, when we had Political debates o'plenty on this site, so forgive me if I sound like a broken record...but I did a 15 page thesis on how, and why, to invade Iraq back in March 2002. 75% of the data I cited came from Clinton Administration sources. Clinton actively sought to overthrow Saddam, by use of the Kurdish Peshmerga, the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, as well as American troops operating in small operations. Clintonites back in 1999-2000 recognized that Iraq had a role, although not huge, but a clandestine one, with terrorism.

I could show you the rhetoric from Clinton's people and mask their identities, and you'd probably say they were all Bushies.

As for tonight's debate, I feel Bush won, but barely. When it comes to debates I'll be honest and non-partisan. Kerry won the first one, and Cheney won the VP debate in my opinion.

Both Kerry and Bush did an excellent job tonight, and I feel Bush did slightly better because he exploited Kerry's flip-flopping in terms of North Korea and Iraq.

Kerry's Record of Siding with the Enemy

Kerry's stance during the Cold War has always been on the wrong side. Yes, we know he served in Vietnam honorably, and I disagree with the Swiftboat ads, but after returning to the US the damage he caused to American morale in Vietnam was worse than 10 Tet Offensives. I am sure the NVA would have sent their gratitude. If you wanted to see more unity during Vietnam...your views will clash with Kerry's
Kerry\'s testimony

Remember people, throughout the Reagan Administration and the latter days of the Cold War, Kerry voted against some of the major weapon's programs and initiatives that ended the standoff with the USSR. If Kerry had his way, the USSR would have existed God knows how long. If you supported the successful end to the Cold War... your views will clash with Kerry's

Kerry\'s Cold War Record
Another article

In 1991, Kerry voted against the liberation of Kuwait, something even other Liberals disagreed with. So He won't go after Saddam if he is Iraq torturing people, and he won't go after him in Kuwait torturing people. I am sure Saddam wished there more senators like Kerry..if there were Kuwait would be flying the Iraqi flag. If you believed Bush Sr. had the right to liberate Kuwait from Saddam...your views will clash with Kerry's.

Kerry\'s vote against 91\' Gulf War..as well as a few other flip-flops

Historically speaking, Kerry is similar to Chamerlain, or Daladier. He means well in his pacificsm, and I am sure it works, but NOT AT THE CURRENT TIME. The worst thing you can do is vote for Kerry for 2004. And I am not saying this as a Conservative...if it were Clinton running for reelection RIGHT now and we were at war and the situation was the same, I'd vote for Bubba :p .

Fish the problem with Kerry being in office and doing nothing as you say is he will not do nothing but will raise your taxes, ask the UN when issues come up with foreign policy, put us deeper in debt "I read his plan it will hurt America big time". He is weak on foreign policy, and his domestic policy is worse in my opinion. National health care is not the answer. I watched a good friend of mind in Canada loss a brother because the surgery they needed to do was 800 miles away and he did not make it. She had to wait 10 months for an MRI and finally had to come to America to get it. There gas is $1.60 a liter. Health care is not free it will cost all of us mightly. We can do better with Tort reform, and caps on lawsuits. America deserves better than "anyone but Bush for president" Kerry.

Henry, I usually agree with most of what you post but I disagree on the Swiftboat ads. I think they raise issues the public needs to know about, such as Kerry meeting with the North Vietnamese, his testimony to Congress, his accusations regarding war crimes being committed by U.S. soldiers and marines, and the impact his testimony had on our POWs. I also have a lot of problems with Kerry's Vietnam record.
--Going back to pick up the special forces officer is meeting the requirements of the job. He should not have left him in the water in the first place. He should have stayed on station to retrieve the man at the time it happened. I was an artillery forward observer with U.S. and Australian special forces in 1968 and if I had ever cut and run leaving them without artillery support they would have hunted me down and shot me. You don't get medals for staying with your men and defending them. It is a requirement of the job as a commander. It is basic leadership.
--Three purple hearts for scratches? There isn't a marine or army lieutenant alive that wouldn't have a couple of dozen purple hearts under Kerry's criteria. I got all kinds of crap like that plus I had amoebic dysentary for three months dropping to 155 pounds yet never was pulled off my assignments as an FO for special forces, LRRPs, Korean infantry and ARVN Rangers. We had fire fights almost every day. You only got a purple heart if you took a bullet or major shrapnel and got medi-vac'd out. Otherwise, antiseptics and butter fly stitches and continue the mission.
--Putting in for your own Bronze Star and Silver Star by writing embellished situation reports is repugnant. I received a Bronze Star. The recommendations came to my Battalion Commander from the units I supported. You don't put in for your own awards.
--The movie videos. Have you seen the one with Kerry walking around the vietnamese village? Who the hell took that? Did Kerry bring a movie camera to document his work so it could be used for his political agendas one day? I never saw a movie camera in Vietnam. I didn't even have a still camera, it was stolen from my jeep trailer when I was out on an operation. This was planned, he wanted movie pictures for his future plans. And he looked like such a newby, you don't walk around a potentially hostile village like that. Look at these kids in Iraq watching every damn thing that moves, thats a soldier and a marine. He was posing for the movie camera.
--Getting out in four months because of three wounds. I had never heard of that "guideline" ever and I had guys in my automatic weapons unit that would have qualified for that. I was in the 1968 TET offensive as a platoon leader in Heavy Automatic Weapons (Dusters/Quad 50s) running convoy escort up into the Central Highlands to Pleiku. In that one week period I could have sent half my unit home on that rule. I think it is highly possible he is the only person ever to invoke that guideline during Vietnam. How did he even find out about it. Or was it made up just for him?
--Then he gets a state side job as an AA to an Admiral and in Washington to be close to the political action. But it gets worse, he tells the Admiral he doesn't want to be in the Navy any more so they let him out early! And he started on Bush and the National Guard? I couldn't even get out of Vietnam for Christmas when my year ended on Dec 31st. I flew a combat mission the day I left for the states calling in air strikes and artillery as a Forward Air Controller and this bastard leaves after four months and gets an early-out. Not only did I put in my two years of active duty with a full year in Vietnam, I was then called up to an active reserve unit when I was told Vietnam vets weren't going to get called up so I did another two years of active reserve duty. Where was Kerry? Giving false congressional testimony.
--But then he co-founds Vietnam Vets against the war and tells everyone I, and all my marine and army peers, are war crimes criminals while he meets with the enemy, throws his medals away and hangs out with Jane Fonda. I loved his testimony with his phony accent sounding like an Episcopalian high priest.
How he thought he was going to get away with this charade is beyond me. When he graduated from Yale he was quoted as saying he was going to try to become President. It seems every move he made was calculated to cover all bases. Spend some time in Vietnam, get some medals and awards, don't get too dirty, be a war protester, make contacts, have some movies and documentation, tell lies to Congress.
All the Swiftboat vets have been doing is to try and expose some of this charade and it needs to be exposed. Bush was blasted for getting favorable treatment. No one has had more favorable and special treatment than John Kerry. To that end, virtually no Vietnam vet that I know, and I am in veterans organizations, supports John Kerry for his actions during that phase of his life and for the most part do not intend to vote for him.
No spin here folks, this is not my opinion it is my actual life experiences.