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#397782 - 10/14/04 04:17 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
deepbottom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 462
Consider this thought. If "...shall not be infringed." was omitted from the 2nd, the government could very easily do what they wanted, even a total ban on private firearms ownership. The 4 words spell out that the government shall not infringe (but we all know that they do) on this right.

At best, a very perplexing situation!

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#397783 - 10/14/04 04:19 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Buck Offline

Member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 11202
Val, the 2nd Amendment has two concepts. The first, having to do with Militias, refers to civilian militias. There was no National Guard when the 2nd Amendment was written. Its purpose is to protect against government tyranny.
The second concept, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed", is what provides for individual citizens to bear arms to protect their life and property. This is what allows RMW 1 to protect his boat from criminals.
The 2nd Amendment is both a collective right of the civilian population to form a militia and an individual right to keep and bear arms to protect private interests. The language "the rights of the people shall not be infringed" is used through out the Bill of Rights and this language has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court as being an individual right. Over time there has been a distinction drawn regarding military weapons like fully automatic assault rifles which have been banned since the early 1930s. There are also Constitutional provisions against using Federal troops and weapons against citizens, which has been violated in the past by both political parties. But RMW was not a vigilante, he did not have a military weapon and he was protecting his freedoms under the Constitution.
I would think that you left Russia because of a tyrannical government that persecuted your family, stole your property, maybe killed your family members or relatives and did not provide you individual protections. If there were a Constitution and a Bill of Rights in Russia that included a 2nd Amendment, you would probably still be in Russia. Russia is your home, your birthplace and the foundation of all of your early traditions and values. You did not leave Russia willingly, you left because of its government. America has benefitted from people like you coming here for freedom. This site is full of people just like you who love their homeland but want to be free. Supporting our Constitution and Bill of Rights is a responsibility we all share and if we do so, this country will be our last stop on our search for freedom.
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#397784 - 10/14/04 04:19 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
RMW 1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 1007
Val can you be any more warped then you appear.We were not defending our selfs from the fear of poachers they were real and they were there.

It was not just for my boat but for my life and that of others because there was no rule of law they departed and left us to fend for our selfs.But when they left You and Kerry would have us not have the means to defend our selfs.Wake up and smell the coffee.

Don
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#397785 - 10/14/04 04:23 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Baitrunner Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 1366
RMW, for the record, the courts have upheld that if a man's domicile is his boat, he has every legal right to protect it, as it is his home, more so than just a "standard" piece of presonnal property.

Buckie, I think you're one of my new board demi-gods: ever consider using some paragraph inserts so you may elevate yourself to full-god status? \:D (I still want to nominate that thread you had about Milfoil for "Post of the Year"!)

"I think, that all right-thinking people, are sick and tired of being told that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I, for one, am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!"
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#397786 - 10/14/04 04:25 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank God you guys are not on the Supreme Court.

Id. at 178. In Cases v. United States, 131 F. 2d 916, 922 (1st Cir. 1942), cert. denied, 319 U.S. 770 (1943), the court, upholding a similar provision of the Federal Firearms Act, said: ''Apparently, then, under the Second Amendment, the federal government can limit the keeping and bearing of arms by a single individual as well as by a group of individuals, but it cannot prohibit the possession or use of any weapon which has any reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia.''
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#397787 - 10/14/04 04:25 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
deepbottom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 462
Baitrunner, No, I did not take your post as a slight but thank you for your concern and courtesy.

I too was thinking about the 4th and the situation that RMW 1 was confronted with. Sure seems they go hand-in-hand.

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#397788 - 10/14/04 04:29 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
richard4878 Offline

Member

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 994
Wait till someone breaks into Vals house with a weapon and trys to hurt his family. I bet his tune would change then...

17 foot sundance skiff with 50hp jhonson.
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#397789 - 10/14/04 04:33 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
deepbottom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 462
Supreme court? That sounds great! But, no thank you. I am going to retire in a short time and unless I am fishing or cutting firewood, I don't plan on doing much of anything except target shooting.

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#397790 - 10/14/04 04:40 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
deepbottom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 462
I once worked with someone who was extremely anti-anythingtodowithfirearms.

He was the first in line to get venison steaks.

He also said he would come to my house if "problems" started because, as he said, "I know you've got guns.".

He also didn't understand why I told him that he wouldn't be welcome there if "problems" started.

There's a big difference in "helping" someone as opposed to "taking care" of someone who is capable of taking care of himself.

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#397791 - 10/14/04 04:42 PM Re: Political Discussion: One Thread Only!
Baitrunner Offline
Member

Registered: 04/12/02
Posts: 1366
DB, If he expected you to take care of him, he must have been a liberal Democrat!

By the by, I, too, am always collecting and splitting firewood for the old woodstove. While I'm getting a little "long in the tooth" for splitting, it is great exercise, and a good way to vent frustrations; especially after reading some of the drivel here! \:D

"I think, that all right-thinking people, are sick and tired of being told that they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I, for one, am not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!"
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