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#1217748 - 06/02/10 10:29 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: swwind]
jonh Offline

FUBO

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 12597
Originally Posted By: swwind
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
I know private industry is looking at ways to make them work because whoever invents a way to make they cost effective, they'll be very rich.


Lets hope so !


I agree, it is going to be a private person or company that comes up with this stuff - not the federal government. The government should just get the hell out of the way. Maybe provide some incentives, but don't wack the taxpayer to make that happen.

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#1217759 - 06/02/10 10:45 AM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: M.C. Niantic]
thevinman Offline

Member

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 1356
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Originally Posted By: M.C. Niantic
Vinman, by geo thermal do you mean heat pump?


Yes, it's a reversible heat pump (meaning it will cool and heat) that uses the ground instead of the ambient air like a normal heat pump...and it's upwards of 400% efficient.

-Vinny
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#1217823 - 06/02/10 01:50 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: swwind]
Buck Offline

Member

Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 11171
M.C., why is natural gas as a transportation fuel not a solution?
Because you have to drill? Because it is only a by-product of oil drilling?
The fact is most natural gas comes from wells that were drilled only for natural gas not a by-product of an oil well.
Take the enormous gas field in our own backyard, the Marcellus Shale formation stretching across the multi-state areas of NY, Pa. and further south. No one thinks of this region as an oil producer though nearly 90% of the worlds oil for lubricants comes from this region due to its high parafin, low sulphur based oil deposits. What is drilled for is natural gas. Where I hunt in western Pa. there are gas wells drilled all over the Allegany National Forest. Most of the roads built through these vast tracts of land are for gas exploration not logging.
New technologies for drilling have improveed the yield of a traditional natural gas well many times over with horizontal drilling. You drill vertically into the Marcellus Shale layer and then horizontally through it cutting through the vertical fissures that exist to allow gas to move through to the pipe. You can further fracture the formation with water. Hydrofracing increases the fissures and channels for gas movement. This releases billions of cubic feet of gas previously deemed unrecoverable.
There are major shale formations all over the country that now offer natural gas drilling opportunities. Areas like the Barnett Shale in Texas, the Fayetteville shale, the Hayneville Shale and others.
Hydrofracing also opens up the huge 3.65 billion barrels of undiscovered oil reserves estimated to sit in the Bakken Oil Formation of North Dakota and Montana.
And we don't drill in most of the 50% of the West that the federal government owns.
So when you look at offshore drilling and wonder why we take that risk and spend that kind of money it is because there are huge deposits, it is cost effective, we need the oil and getting the oil that is on land is blocked by the government and environmentalists. It could be more cost effective and safer if we focused on what we have under our country's land mass.
The idea of not drilling is a fantasy. We will drill because we have to for national defense and economic reasons. But if the country transitions to a different fuel for transportation it will free up all of that oil requirement to either be used for an alternate use or not be needed at all and we reap the benefits mentioned in my post above. This is the only practical solution to weaning ourselves from foreign oil and becoming energy independant. As alternate sources of energy become more practical we use more of wind, solar, geo-thermal and battery power and become less dependant upon fossil fuels. If we are energy independant it will free up hundreds of billions of dollars that now go to our enemies for oil and this money would be reinvested back into America. Some could even be used for the social programs about a third of the country seems to want which currently are on a course to bankrupt the country in twenty years.
What will trigger this move is the economies of scale. When natural gas as a vehicle fuel becomes nation-wide people will start to use it. Right now gasolene is cheaper and easier to get but we are in a global economic slowdown and oil demand has lessened. In a few short years when we get back to free market economics and the world booms again a barrel of oil will be $200 bucks and natural gas will look like a good alternative.
Remember diesel? Huh?, what about diesel? When I was a kid diesel was only available at truck stops not gas stations. Now you can buy it anywhere. The same will happen with natural gas and propane vehicle systems.
With coal, oil and natural gas plus all of the alternative energy solutions like wind, solar, geo-thermal, tidal, nuclear and hydro we have all of the energy we will ever need right here in North America. No place on earth, including Saudia Arabia, has more energy at its disposal. We just need an intelligent approach to not only getting it but how to use it.
Drilling through a mile of water without having the proper cut-off technology to cap a well instantly was insane. This is the fault of the deep water drilling industry and our federal government who has the licensing and over-sight responsibility to insure the safety of the workers and the environment. This disaster will set back our energy initiatives for a long time.


Edited by Buck (06/02/10 01:56 PM)
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#1217829 - 06/02/10 02:06 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: Buck]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15900
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
Some good discussion around Natural Gas !!

Gee, I'm wondering if we'll regret keeping Broadwater LNG terminal out of our area?

Nat gas doesn't transport well, so you need to liquify it to transport easily. Hence the need for large LNG terminals, like Broadwater was supposed to be.

The Anti-Broadwater people said it was going to explode and wipe out CT. This of course was not at all factual, but I'm just wondering if any of these same anti-crowd would rather have local NG stocks versus an offshore Oil well.

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#1217843 - 06/02/10 02:34 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
Gee, I'm wondering if we'll regret keeping Broadwater LNG terminal out of our area?


Are you kidding ? This BP spill and the explosion in Middletown this spring, make me sure that Broadwater was a bad idea.

Regret . . . . . . more like rejoyce !

Commercial enterprise enjoys all profits and the public underwrites all the risk. . . . it doesn't seem like that model has worked out too well for the public recently. Maybe Hoop has some perspective on that.

The Middletown explosion was only left over NG in the pipes, and people felt the blast in Rhode Island. Broadwater was billions of cubic feet.

I have not read all of Buck's post yet - but with the NG finds in NY, PA and out west, import capacity is even less important than it was in 2005 when Broadwater was a red hot debate. Domestic NG has its place thats for sure - it will be needed as a transitional fuel in the mix of other energy solution.


Edited by swwind (06/02/10 02:44 PM)

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

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#1217848 - 06/02/10 02:42 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
swwind Offline

Member

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 15005
Originally Posted By: John from Madison CT
Todd: What about the pedestrian walking down the street. If he gets t-boned by a car, how is that different than the fisherman in the Gulf?


I think it's very different, in your senario, the car t bones one person, but in the Gulf the car continues driving down the sidewalk smashing life after life, towns, businesses and causing un measureable damage to the eco system.

The scale and the distribution of risk is just not comparable.

""Happy Talk" . . . . . Because it has worked so well thus far"

"It is not necessary to change; survival is not mandatory" - Edward Deming

"Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach" - Greta Thunberg January 2020

"I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard.

Team Man Made Climate Change is Real.

"Such change demands on our part a serious and responsible recognition not only of the kind of world we may be leaving to our children, but also to the millions of people living under a system which has overlooked them" - Pope Francis September 2015
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#1217882 - 06/02/10 03:53 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: Trooper_Bri]
W.G. Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 5423
Well said, Trouper Bri.
Best wishes, Hoop.

"We make a living by what we get.
We make a life by what we give."
'Winston Churchill'


Dee's Bait & Tackle,
93 Clay St.,New Haven
(203)562-7025

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#1217889 - 06/02/10 04:21 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: W.G.]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15900
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
When it really comes down to it, most people are against change, and of course progress.

Todd: If you're against a LNG terminal 10 miles from land, that would mean you are against any NG terminals, piping, and drilling on land, right?

So how do we take this great idea of using more NG when you're unwilling to take some risk? You're afraid of NG and it's explosive properties, yet you would allow a family member to sit on a tank of it in a car?? We want it in our buses, to heat our homes, etc etc...... Why aren't they dangerous ???


I guess my point is..........there are risks with everything. Everything we do different has a calculated risk. Nothing is without risk or inconvienience. You simply can't have it both ways.

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#1217912 - 06/02/10 05:23 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: John from Madison CT]
O-BASS Offline

Member

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 20124
who...the hell....would...want....Broadwater.....at....this.....point.....John?

seriously? personally im all about building another nuke plant, but the last thing i want is another fossil fuel anything in state.

middletown plat worked out great a few months ago? didnt we remember that?

conrad, i love ya but you gotta get off the Obama crap here. its old, its tired, and at this point it makes no sense and has little to do with this situation, if anything at all.

this nonsense will leak til Christmas, thats my prediction and im sticking to it.
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#1217915 - 06/02/10 05:30 PM Re: Hoop on CNN tonight! [Re: O-BASS]
John from Madison CT Offline

OffshoreFishingGear.com

Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 15900
Loc: Old Saybrook (formerly Madison...
I'm all for Nuclear. It's my #1 choice, however, nobody will allow one to be built near them.

Are we all in agreement that Nuclear is the way to go?

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