Don't ya just love it when people answer their own questions!?

In all fairness, "FIEVEL!" , that is just a part of it, but a really BIG part of it, to be sure! I understand your concern with what I am suggesting. I fully realize the slippery slope and the risk involved with what I am suggesting. But in typical right wing fashion you are taking what I am suggesting out to it's worst case scenario.

I realize that, just like on virtually every other issue, there is a delicate balance to be achieved and maintained. However, I wish you all would stop accusing me of hating the wealthy and trying to take away ALL of their hard earned money! I am suggesting NOTHING of the kind! AND I DON'T HATE ANYONE! HONEST! (Except Ann Coulter! :p )

I don't hate the wealthy, nor do I blame them for operating within the existing laws and framework. I don't expect them to charge the Capitol, bags of money in hand, and say, "Please, take this, the country needs it more than we do! " :rolleyes:

And like I said a long time ago on this thread, I value capitalism and our free, open market economy. All I am suggesting is balancing the tax burden more equitably, as a percentage of tax payers' gross annual income, taking into account all sources of income, and making sure that the tax on income is a progressive one, which increases as one's income does, or at the very least a flat tax. I have also said, on this thread, that I would support a flat tax; what could be more fair than that?

I am not advocating, "Take from the rich, GIVE to the poor." I am suggesting we can do better, and that the wealthy can afford far more than we tax them now. I'm sorry if some really wealthy guy might have to sell his villa in Maui ; TOUGH!

I am suggesting that if we, jeez, I'm afraid to even utter these taboo words, raised the taxes on the wealthy, a relatively small amount, really, we could do so much more for so many and all be better for it in the long run. And I am NOT one of the ones looking to gain anything in the way of handouts or assistance for myself! I have said THAT on this thread, too!

We are so screwed with deficits, and the war, and such, that we can't do what I envision now anyway, but what I envision is using the increased tax revenue (gained from doing away with corporate welfare, tax loopholes, etc., combined with a measured and reasonable tax increase on the very wealthy and corporations) to increase spending on healthcare for everyone; education for everyone, (especially education, inlcuding higher education, education is THE KEY!); housing and food for everyone; job training and job opportunity for everyone; so that everyone has a better and truly more equal opportunity to invest in our system.

We INVEST! in our childrens' and our futures, by truly providing for and educating our future generations, so that we eliminate poverty and the need for social handouts and entitlements, get everyone working and contributing to our country and paying in to that tax base. Again, I know the argument that comes next, and recognize the risk, and realize that we have failed with social programs in the past and that we must guard against abuses.

What all you conservatives are going to say next is, if we start giving out handouts in the way of housing, healthcare, and food, we teach the lazy people that they can get something for doing nothing and we create a culture of needy and a system of entitlements. That's why I said, a long time ago, on this thread, that we put a floor on the house, not a ceiling.

We provide a minimum standard of living, and one better than the bottom we have now. Yes, some may very well decide that is good enough for them, they won't work harder and try to get ahead. But we can build in bench marks, and waypoints, and require that they do certain things, that certain things be accomplished within certain time periods to qualify for certain benefits received: like requiring that benefit recipients finish high school or earn GED's; or requiring them to choose between taking advantage of opportunities we provide for higher education, or job training programs, or military service; in order to continue to receive certain assistance. But again, there should be a certain minimum standard of living, and it should be humane and reasonable, and yes, some are going to be satisfied with that and be complacent.

But how many people, really, as a percentage of our citizenry, when provided genuine opportunity, a chance at meaningful gains and improvements in their standard of living, with real HOPE! will not choose to take advantage of that opportunity and to do better for themselves? Not too many, I think! Ultimately, we all want the same things. But so many of our citizens have no hope, they have given up. We've made it too hard, and not worth the effort for SOME of them.

And please, spare me the stories of immigrants, and depressions, and WWII, :rolleyes: I know all of that; I have parents, and aunts and uncles, and grandparents, too! My father grew up in Texas, born in 1938, sharecropping and dirt farming, very poor my grandparents, barefoot until he was 6, and only then cuz he had to wear shoes to school, joined the Army in 1957, got married in 1960, raised a family, we lived bare bones, he worked his butt off, factories, multiple low paying jobs, my parents bought a house, I went to college for 2 years, no one paid for me, I paid for it myself, I quit school and got married and raised 3 kids, yeah, my fiance got pregnant while we were in college, so what? I did the right thing, we got married, I went to work, 23 years later we're still married, she went back to school, we both have good jobs, our kids are great, and we own a house, and are living better than at least 70% of the rest.

But this is a different day and age, and there are alot more of us! EVERYTHING IS DIFFERENT!! And there is just SO MUCH obscene, extravagent, unnecessary, opulence, and extreme wealth out there! WE CAN DO BETTER!

I know I am describing Utopia, I know I'm envisioning a perfect society, with perfect people, who do what they are supposed to, who do the right thing, who take advantage of opportunities and work hard. I realize it won't all work exactly that way. Does that mean we shouldn't even TRY!?

You know, it's interesting, throughout this thread, every time I have suggested, we can do better, we can afford more, we can help the poor rise above, we can eliminate poverty and it will make us all better in the long run- the response from the right is "It could be alot worse" "This is the best country in the world" "All you have to do is work hard and get an education and you'll succeed" "If they don't like it why don't they go back where they came from" "The poor in other countries wish they lived as well as our poor"........

Is that what this is all about? How much worse it could be? How far we can sink and still be better than everyone else? I offer a vision of hope and optimism and of ways to improve the lives of our poor, and there are ALOT of them, alot more than the rich, and alot more than those of us in the middle, and ultimately improve the lives of all of us, and all any of you can say is, "We like it the way it is, it could be alot worse, leave us and our money alone." "We climbed the ladder ourselves, we don't want to throw down a rope to help others climb it, IT'S OUR ROPE, WE PAID FOR IT OURSELVES WITH THE MONEY WE EARNED WITH OUR HARD WORK! We don't HAVE to help them up!"

Do you? Do you really like it the way it is? Is it good enough just because it's better than anywhere else, just because it could be alot worse?

In the wise words of Dr. Phil, "HOW'S THAT WORKIN' FOR YA?!"